Minutes of the Cyprus Meeting
             =============================

Participants: C. Alexandrou, A. Shindler, J. Gonzalez Lopez, 
              G. Herdoiza, T.Korzec, G. Koutsou, O. Pene, 
              P. Dimopoulos, J. Carbonell, V. Drach, C. Michael,
              C. Urbach, K. Jansen, M. Wagner

Discussion topics: 

1. Publications, in particular the long write-up

2. additional lattice spacing for N_f=2 simulations

3. How to handle beta=3.8

4. Strategy for chiral fits and scaling

ad. 1: 

The participants discussed the purpose of the long write-up and 
the selection of authorship. The participants agreed that the original 
authorship has been selected to give credit to those people who worked
a lot for the code development, tuning to kappa_crit (including theoretical
work) and generation of configurations. In particular, the long write-up
should have given credit to a smaller set of people, emphasizing more the 
younger people. 

However, the participants after some discussions agreed to respect 
the wish of other members of the collaboration to sign this paper. 

It is the opinion and suggestion of the participants to therefore have the 
same author list as on the first ETMC letter. Exceptions are 
J. Pickavance (since she left the collaboration)
G. Martinelli (who only wanted to sign the letter)

The participants also agreed that those people who were on the original 
author list of the long write-up, i.e. 
Boucaud, Dimopoulos, Farchioni, Frezzotti, Gimenez, Herdoiza, Jansen,
Michael, Palao, Rossi, Scorzato, Shindler, Urbach, Wenger
define the default list of people who have the right to sign project papers
coming from the N_f=2 configurations such as charm quark mass, nucleon masses, 
form factors, etc. 
Of course, it remains to the individual judgment whether a signature
is withdrawn.

Nota bene: Petros decided not to be involved in this discussion about 
           N_f=2.

Furthermore, it was concluded that concerning the question of N_f=2+1+1 
a new default author list has to be defined and the publication strategy 
has to be rediscussed.

ad 2:
In principle the participants agreed that an additional lattice spacing 
would be possible. However, to simulate a finer lattice with a\approx 0.05fm  
seems to be out of reach for computertime reasons. Cost estimates are 
\approx 1 year*(midplane BGL or apeNEXT birack. An intermediate lattice 
spacing seems to be feasible. 
However, this would have to be done solely on APE-Rome machines since all other 
resources have to go to the N_f=2+1+1 case. If Rome does want to perform such 
simulations, the participants would agree on this goal, but would not be 
able to give additional computer time from other resources.

In addition, some concern was raised that this intermediate lattice may not
really improve our continuum extrapolation.

ad 3:
The vast majority of the participants agreed that beta=3.8 cannot be used for 
a scaling test since we are not sure whether we have tuned to maximal twist 
there and can hence not claim to have a consistent approach to the continuum 
limit. This means that we have to rely on only 2 beta values for continuum estimates
of physical quantities. The data points at beta=3.8 can thus only be used 
for a consistency check. This holds for basically all physical quantities 
we are exploring.  

It has been emphasized that a new simulation with the PHMC algorithm should 
be tried to possibly save beta=3.8. However, for this, the PHMC algorithm 
first needs to be improved, which is work in progress.

ad 4: 
The vast majority of the participants expressed the opinion that for all 
"official" ETMC numbers of low energy constants the chiral fits should 
be done directly on the data at beta=3.9 and beta=4.05 with a common fit 
including finite size corrections.

Other fits such as first extrapolating to the continuum limit, including 
O(a^2) effects etc. should and have to be performed as consistency checks and
estimates of systematic effects. 

This strategy again should be used for other quantities such as nucleon masses, 
charm and strange quark masses etc.

A concern was raised based on the argument that the future analysis
could follow the lines of the lattice proceedings on the scaling issues.